Curse

Ytrill · Jun 01, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Here it is for PvP:
1) Penetrating Attack
2) Pin Down
3) Throw Dirt
4) Stormchaser
5) Called Shot
6) Pacifism
7) Healing Breeze
8) Rebirth

what do you think? played 2 pvp so far haven't won yet.. got 4 kills combined though. feedback appreciated

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

My suggestion is to scrap this build and make a warrior, monk, or elementalist. These are the only builds the devs want used in pvp.

rii · Jun 01, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

The devs :S?
I thought they wanted bling and so forth...

Dont scrap the build, but if you intend on participating in really high pvp, you might want to use a different class.

You also forgot mesmer on that list.

Sting · Jun 01, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

My suggestion is to scrap this build and make a warrior, monk, or elementalist. These are the only builds the devs want used in pvp.

Yep Rangers are considered "SUPPORT CLASS" that nobody really want. But if you insist on being a ranger be prepared to wait long hours for grps and make sure your more of a Monk when it comes to skills becasue youll be asked to do more healing than anything.

Kishin · Jun 01, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Or you can not try and do Tombs with a PUG, thereby avoiding hours of wait.

A dedicated team (and team build, for that matter) are far more effective anyway. I would never hope to seriously compete by just throwing myself in with a bunch of people who's skillsets and skills as players I was completely unfamiliar with. (Except in 4v4 random Arena PvP, but you can't take that stuff seriously, as 90% of it is tactically vapid).

-Eirion

Ensign · Jun 01, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

My suggestion is to scrap this build and make a warrior, monk, or elementalist. These are the only builds the devs want used in pvp.

You mean these are the only classes that random, tactically devoid pick-up groups want. They wouldn't even know what a good Ranger looked like if they saw one, let alone how to use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Dont scrap the build, but if you intend on participating in really high pvp, you might want to use a different class.

If you want to compete in really high level PvP with a Ranger, learn how to create an effective Ranger build and how to play it well, then hook up with a solid, coordinated guild. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Rangers in competitive, high level PvP.

If you want to muck around in the lower tiers of tombs with PUGs and mending maintainers, don't play a Ranger, they don't have a use for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

But if you insist on being a ranger be prepared to wait long hours for grps and make sure your more of a Monk when it comes to skills becasue youll be asked to do more healing than anything.

If you're playing a Ranger and are asked to do healing once you're in a group, you should just quit out then and there, because you just know that group is going nowhere fast. Sure it's hard to get a tombs group with a Ranger, but wouldn't you rather win a couple once you do get a group than go 0-1 lobby?

Peace,
-CxE

Epinephrine · Jun 01, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

As always, Ensign steps in and puts people straight

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

As always, Ensign steps in and puts people straight

Yeah, he sure set us straight. Basically you have to know how to use a Ranger the "right" way, play against total noobs, be in an organized group that practices for hours each day, blah blah blah.

Bottom line is Rangers suck. I'm still waiting to run into someone that uses them the "right" way......oh wait. I think someone used distracting shot on me once while I was casting troll unguent. Guess someone has found a use for them.

Edit- Even if someone is successful using a Ranger, I guarantee they could be much more successful if they specialized in another class.

Ytrill · Jun 01, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

/sigh
I wanted helpful feedback, not negative. I asked how my skill lineup was for PvP, not my class build. If your not a ranger, you probably dont know how much damage we do, but I can tell you. Its probably double what a pally does(war/mo). I know rangers are a support class. I am part of a 20 or so guild right now thats main focus is getting ourselves prepared for GvG PvP. I made the ranger for my guild because we have a set PvP group prepared (when the other 3 hit ascension) of 2war/mo, 1 mo/e, 1nec/e, r/mo, r/e, 1e/mo, 1mes/e.
Im not a mindless meatshield who runs around slashing things. I stand off to the side and snipe. I can rez the monk if she dies. I can call vital targets for guild victory...I cant do this in PUG's because half of them are default PvP 20's who have no idea what their doing, and others just want to kill one guy, and feel like mission accomplished.
Now I have another question, should I practice in PUG pvp to improve my GvG? Or should I wait for a few of my guildmates to reach level 20 and then go onto HoH PvP as practice?

War/Mo are slow and dont have enough health points.

Nevermind I know the answer to that myself...Im not going to play with anymore morons. I just had an epiphany when I read Mercury's post.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Sorry for being so negative. I'm just frustrated with the Ranger class right now.

Aug · Jun 01, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

What is your attribute setup? You have 2 Prot Prayers and 1 Healing Prayer. You should really consider consolidating to either Protection or Healing.

I'd take Heal Other and Healing Breeze, since you're likely a last target, and thus shouldn't need to heal yourself that often.

I'd use Restore Life or Signet of Resurrection for a res.

I don't really have an opinion on the Ranger stuff, as I've never played one.

Sarus · Jun 01, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Sorry for being so negative. I'm just frustrated with the Ranger class right now.

The problem with the ranger class on a PUG is that the ranger class is primarily a utility class with decent damage. (i.e, energy denial, interrupts, rends etc.). Most PUG's don't make use of the utility that utility classes provide. For example, what good does it do if you rend a target and your team doesn't spike it? Rangers are still a strong class. We run with one on our tombs builds almost everytime we have someone to play it. I'd suggest getting into a guild that likes to work together and uses voice chat if you want to get the most out of a ranger. (or an organized PUG that uses voice chat).

Ensign · Jun 01, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

Basically you have to know how to use a Ranger the "right" way

There is just one hard and fast rule for using a Ranger - use a Superior Expertise rune. I've looked at effective Oath Shot builds, Barrage or Punishing Shot damage stacking builds, trappers, sappers with Poison Arrow or Melandru's Arrows, and every single one of those builds, without fail, needs a Superior Expertise rune to make the attributes work. I'd go so far as to say that the class is simply not playable without that rune, as the attribute scales so sharply those last couple levels, and the effect is enough to make mediocre to poor skills outright amazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

play against total noobs

Excuse me? I never design builds with noobs in mind. In fact when making tombs builds I do so with a singular purpose in mind - taking and holding the Hall of Heroes for an extended period of time, and that means holding off and beating the good teams, not total noobs. We've been running a Ranger for a while now and he's indispensable. I sometimes wish we could run two but we simply do not have the room. The only big failing the Ranger has IMO is that he cannot abuse enchantment stacking in any reasonable fashion, and with the current state of enchantment removal buff stacking is the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

be in an organized group that practices for hours each day

Please. The level of competition in tombs is abysmal - I mean, c'mon, you're looking at fighting big packs of Warriors, Monks, and Elementalists with zero advanced tactics, zero hate, zero disruption, and a whole bunch of easily countered, focused spike damage. Just get competent people and an organized build and you should find yourself in the Hall of Heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

Bottom line is Rangers suck. I'm still waiting to run into someone that uses them the "right" way......oh wait.

Next time you see iQ holding the Hall of Heroes, feel confident that there's a Ranger there scooping up sigils. I'm not at liberty to give out the exact build, but be confident that he isn't doing anything that hasn't been done to death on this forum and the builds forum already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

I was casting troll unguent.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

I asked how my skill lineup was for PvP

Honestly, I think your build looks really random, like a bunch of skills that you happen to like and slapped together without any real guiding principle. What are you trying to do with this build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

, not my class build. If your not a ranger, you probably dont know how much damage we do, but I can tell you. Its probably double what a pally does(war/mo).

A Ranger tricked out for damage does a bit under 2/3 the damage of a good Elementalist, and a bit over half the damage of a tricked out WaMo. They are, however, much less vulnerable to hate than Warriors, and a good deal more efficient / disruptive than your typical Elementalist. It's solid damage but nothing to really get excited about anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

Now I have another question, should I practice in PUG pvp to improve my GvG? Or should I wait for a few of my guildmates to reach level 20 and then go onto HoH PvP as practice?

Practice with guildies - go into 4v4 arena if you have to. Or try and jump onto a good PUG - I know that Xaanix and Nash run some pretty tight ones from time to time. Your random PUG is going to teach you more bad habits than good ones, especially playing a Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

War/Mo are slow and dont have enough health points.

Well, the premade maybe, but that's a premade. The premades are pretty terrible as a rule - the Fianna Boon guy and the IVEX trapper are decent (though the latter follows the 'Superior Expertise or bust' rule perfectly) but the rest get laughed at.

Peace,
-CxE

grimmolly · Jun 01, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

I wanted helpful feedback, not negative.

Ensign is right. Rangers work fine. Ditch all that healing and bring smiting and when they ask you to heal, politely tell them that's not what rangers do.

Quote:

Nevermind I know the answer to that myself...Im not going to play with anymore morons. I just had an epiphany when I read Mercury's post.

Mecury could've been quiet, but opened his mouth and removed all our doubts about his idiocy. Sure, rangers are tough to play, but the lesson to learn here is: don't take bad advice. It doesn't matter whether it's "bring troll unguent it r0x0rs" or "rangers always suck and have no place on a team." Don't just be a clone, either. Read the skill descriptions, make your own build and try it to be sure it works like you intend.

Last night, I went in a guild team in the tombs with two necros, two monks, and four henchmen and beat several full teams with three healers in the tombs before we lost to a full team of Heaven's Fire after wiping them once and the priest rezzing them, so anyone who wants to tell you that necros and rangers don't belong has his head too far up his arse. Here's a screenshot.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimmolly

Ensign is right. Rangers work fine. Ditch all that healing and bring smiting and when they ask you to heal, politely tell them that's not what rangers do.

Mecury could've been quiet, but opened his mouth and removed all our doubts about his idiocy. Sure, rangers are tough to play, but the lesson to learn here is: don't take bad advice. It doesn't matter whether it's "bring troll unguent it r0x0rs" or "rangers always suck and have no place on a team." Don't just be a clone, either. Read the skill descriptions, make your own build and try it to be sure it works like you intend.

Last night, I went in a guild team in the tombs with two necros, two monks, and four henchmen and beat several full teams with three healers in the tombs before we lost to a full team of Heaven's Fire after wiping them once and the priest rezzing them, so anyone who wants to tell you that necros and rangers don't belong has his head too far up his arse. Here's a screenshot.

Guess I was proven wrong. If you have a perfect ranger build and get good positioning and have good allies you MIGHT have a shot at winning. But even these teams that claim to rely on ranger class have at most one on their team. LOL. Tell me that ranger can't just be swapped with another class without a great loss to the team. Ranger is just a fringe class and doesn't do anything another class can't do better. Ranger, necro, and mesmer are pretty interchangeable.

Ytrill · Jun 01, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

My Build currently is
HealingP: 7
Smiting:1
Protection:1
BstM: 4
Expert: 7
WS: 4
Mrks: 14

Ensign, the purpose I see myself serving in GvG is working with a r/e to off the casters as quickly and painlessly as possible. Casters(ele,nec,mes) come first, then monk. The melees are not our concern at this point. I want to deal as much dmg as I can as quickly as possible, I want to be able to rez casters if they are dead(paladins too busy slashing away to rez), and I want to have atLeast one def stance if the time comes...I have just about every skill, any recommendations? If your not a ranger, just dont give me advice about what you dont know, thanks.

Flatliner · Jun 01, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

My suggestion is to scrap this build and make a warrior, monk, or elementalist. These are the only builds the devs want used in pvp.

What about Mesmer and Necro?

Two of the most useful classes in my opinion.

Ytrill · Jun 01, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

Guess I was proven wrong. If you have a perfect ranger build and get good positioning and have good allies you MIGHT have a shot at winning. But even these teams that claim to rely on ranger class have at most one on their team. LOL. Tell me that ranger can't just be swapped with another class without a great loss to the team. Ranger is just a fringe class and doesn't do anything another class can't do better. Ranger, necro, and mesmer are pretty interchangeable.

Who claims to "rely" on a ranger? They're morons. As many people have said rangers are a SUPPORT class. Keyword - Support. When the rest of the group is Focus targeted on the monk, we're sniping the ele. Necros are also a huge damage dealer, and you, my friend, are a...Well idiot sums it up for me.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

My Build currently is
HealingP: 7
Smiting:1
Protection:1
BstM: 4
Expert: 7
WS: 4
Mrks: 14

Ensign, the purpose I see myself serving in GvG is working with a r/e to off the casters as quickly and painlessly as possible. Casters(ele,nec,mes) come first, then monk. The melees are not our concern at this point. I want to deal as much dmg as I can as quickly as possible, I want to be able to rez casters if they are dead(paladins too busy slashing away to rez), and I want to have atLeast one def stance if the time comes...I have just about every skill, any recommendations? If your not a ranger, just dont give me advice about what you dont know, thanks.

Main problem with this build is that your attribute points are all over the place. Most people focus on 2-3 attributes. Usual ones for ranger are expertise, marksmanship, and third is up to you. For rez in pvp, signet tends to work best. Monk rez takes too long and brings back allies with low health. If you are also into defensive stances, I would make the third attribute wilderness survival. There are a few good ones there as well as some traps and preparations. Maybe you could also try the barrage bot thing with judge's insight and tiger's fury.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrill

Who claims to "rely" on a ranger? They're morons. As many people have said rangers are a SUPPORT class. Keyword - Support. When the rest of the group is Focus targeted on the monk, we're sniping the ele. Necros are also a huge damage dealer, and you, my friend, are a...Well idiot sums it up for me.

Fine, say a support class then. My point is that Ranger can be substituted with another support class without missing a beat. Rangers have no real purpose in pvp. They can help, but they are not an essential part of the team. Anything a ranger can do can be done better by another class.